Trained Parrot BlogParrot Wizard Online Parrot Toy StoreThe Parrot Forum

Loose Poop: Metronizadole Side Effect?

Talk about bird illnesses and other bird health related issues. Seeds, pellets, fruits, vegetables and more. Discuss what to feed your birds and in what quantity. Share your recipe ideas.

Loose Poop: Metronizadole Side Effect?

Postby Cockatude » Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:31 pm

I had a tragedy last month. My citron-crested cockatoo came home from boarding with diarrhea, and he had lost weight. He started gaining as soon as he got home, and he seemed strong, so I gave him a couple of days. In the meantime, I looked for an avian vet. I learned how hard it is to find one in my area.

I took him to a lady who claimed she was an expert. She looked at him on a Friday, said he didn't look bad, took blood, and told me to wait for a call on Monday. She said that if he appeared to have an infection, she would have a pharmacy in Arizona ship him an antibiotic. Because she was willing to take so long to get him medicine, I thought I had overreacted to his illness. She was not concerned at all.

On Monday morning, he didn't look bad. The vet called and said he had an elevated white count, so they would have the antibiotic sent. On Monday night, he was sitting with his beak open, which he had never done before. I drove to the emergency room at the University of Florida, and they refused to give him medication based on the information from the other vet. They insisted on handling and examining him, and he died from the stress.

On Tuesday, the Arizona pharmacy (Road Runner) called to arrange for shipping. Not very helpful.

My other bird, a grey, has also had questionable poop, but he is not wasting, and his appetite has generally been good. I took him to the university, too, and they gave him metronizadole (10 days) and milk thistle. He seems to be gaining weight. His poop is much less watery now. He is very vigorous. His appetite has been great since starting the medication, but today he only ate part of a cheese reward after I gave him his medicine. That's unusual.

I am wondering if anyone else here has had experience with metronizadole. The vet examined his poop, and he said he appeared to have a lot of clostridium bacteria (didn't name a particular type). I have read that some types of clostridium don't respond well to metronizadole, and that ronizadole is used to treat them. I have some ronizadole on hand, but I don't want to make things worse with amateur doctoring.

This is his eighth day on metronizadole. I don't know if the medicine or the bacteria is causing the remaining looseness in his poop. I would like to know if metronizadole has caused loose poop for other parrots.

I have a call in to the vet, just in case.
Cockatude
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 32
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Congo grey
Flight: No

Re: Loose Poop: Metronizadole Side Effect?

Postby Pajarita » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:46 am

First of all, I am sooooo sorry you lost your too! What a heartbreak for you! Especially since you tried so hard and the idiot doctors were the ones that screwed things up. Many years ago, when I was just starting with my rescue, I also lost a bird that died from the stress of being handled by the emergency vets (they insisted on doing an XRay and she died on the table). Recently, I had to take another bird to the emergency room and she was prescribed three different pain killers together which would have put her in kidney failure in a matter of days. You need to be careful with emergency vets and birds because the greatest majority of them are just dog and cat vets and have no idea how to treat a bird.

As to the gray... I wish somebody had done a good fecal on both the too and the gray so the medicine can be exactly what is needed but, based on my personal experience, metronidazole is not the most common med given for diarrhea (that would be Baytril or the generic form, enrofloxacin). Metronidazole is normally used for birds with giardia or canker and it is supposed to be used for 14 days but what bothers me is that the diarrhea did not stop or, at least, get noticeably better within a couple of days -which is the normal effect. Another thing that caught my attention, although this could have been something you forgot to add, is that any clostridium infection makes the poop smell real bad (and I do mean bad to the point that you will notice it right away - at least, that's what I have read everywhere because, like I said, I never had a bird with clostridium). It also bothers me that they did not tell you to give the bird any probiotics because, usually, birds that get intestinal infections are birds that do not have a good amount of healthy bacteria (which you get by feeding the bird a fresh food diet) and, with the diarrhea and the antibiotics (which kill not only the bad bacteria but also whatever little they have of the good one), the poor intestines are striped clean, and that, in turn, makes it very difficult for the diarrhea to stop. It's like a vicious cycle kind of thing...

Now, I would strongly suggest you find a good avian vet and get a fecal done but, in the meantime, this is what I would do:

1. Keep the bird quiet and VERY warm (85 to 95 degrees) by putting a heating pad (NOT A LAMP) at the bottom of his cage and some sort of material draped over his cage so the heat doesn't escape (put a thermometer at the same height of the perch he uses the most and make sure the temperature is constant).

2. Get yourself some enrofloxacin (https://allbirdproducts.com/collections ... loxacin-10) and put him on a twice daily dosage.

3. Get yourself some probiotics (https://allbirdproducts.com/collections ... -probiotic) and putting the dosage (it's 15 drops for a gray) in a bit of fruit juice (organic apple) give it to the bird in a syringe twice a day and 2 hours after giving him the antibiotic.

4. Feed the bird ripe fruit every day but no citrus -apple is good because it has pectin which is good for intestinal flora - pineapple is good - papaya is good. And some cooked white rice. Do not feed pellets because they are too dry for a bird with diarrhea (diarrhea dehydrates and pellets also dehydrate so the two together make things worse). I would make a special, simple gloop with white rice (use Basmati from India or Indonesia, it has no arsenic), kamut and lentils adding corn, peas, carrots and sweet potatoes.

NO CHEESE!!! NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS WHATSOEVER!!! Greys do not eat animal protein, they don't have the necessary digestive enzymes to process it and you should never feed any to any herbivore bird but much less when they have diarrhea, it only makes things worse.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Loose Poop: Metronizadole Side Effect?

Postby Cockatude » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:19 pm

Thanks for the help.

His poop has never smelled at all. I checked that. I took the liberty of giving him enrofloxacin for 5 days before taking him in, because I was so frustrated trying to get a decent vet. I was afraid he would drop dead before I could get him into an exam room. The metronidazole seems to have firmed up the solids, but the enrofloxacin didn't seem to do anything.

The vet said he was dehydrated, and he said it was okay to give him Pedialyte. I wonder if the sugar and salt in the Pedialyte made him drink too much.

He has had some kefir and yogurt. I can cut that off and see what happens. The vet who failed to help the cockatoo gave me a bunch of acidophilus packets. I can try that now that the antibiotics are finished.

I have read that increased pellets can cause polyuria, and he is definitely getting more pellets these days.

His weight is still fine, and he shows no symptoms at all except for the excess water in the poop.
Cockatude
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 32
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Congo grey
Flight: No

Re: Loose Poop: Metronizadole Side Effect?

Postby Pajarita » Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:08 am

I don't know why people continue giving their parrots yogurt, kefir or any other milk-derived drink. Parrots are not mammals and only mammals have the digestive enzymes to properly break down and digest milk. It's as simple as that. They get virtually no benefit from them and, if anything, they make things worse. Please do more in-depth research on parrots natural diets and you will see that, with the exception of two species (possibly a third but only seasonally), they are all herbivores and that means NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS WHATSOEVER.

Well, if there is no smell to his poop then it's not clostridium... Now, the thing about birds and antibiotics is that, in my personal experience and for some reason that I do not know and for which I have never been able to find a single study, they require higher and longer doses of them. Vets usually give you 2 weeks worth of them but I always ask for three because, if you do only two, there is the possibility of not getting rid of the whole thing. I also give them a double dosage the first time (I do the same with my dogs and cats). I have found that giving a strong first dosage shortens the time it takes for the antibiotic to start showing an effect on the symptoms.

If the bird had the right dosage of antibiotic, the right antibiotic (I prefer Baytril but I have also used Clavamox - Amoxicillin with potassium clavulanate- with great success) for the right length of time and continues with diarrhea, it definitely needs a good fecal.

If the bird is drinking too much water (polydipsia) and peeing too much (polyuria) you need to do a bile acids test (to eliminate the possibility of liver disease) and a glucose test (the bird needs to be tranquilized for this because stress causes glucose levels to go up) and to look for sugar in the fecal test (to eliminate the possibility of diabetes - some pellets cause diabetes in birds).

Personally, the very first thing I would have done is to make absolutely sure that everything the bird is eating is exactly the right stuff (meaning no pellets, no animal products, spring or filtered water, raw produce, unprocessed and organic everything, etc.) and is getting ACV with the mother daily. I know that one tends to give a sick bird the same thing it has always eaten thinking that if the bird has been getting it for a long time without a problem, then it's OK and might even be better not to 'rock the boat' but this actually goes against science. Let me explain. The body always tries VERY hard to find homeostasis (meaning the right balance between functions, chem values, organs, etc) and, when things are not 100%, would 'borrow from Paul to give to give to Peter' to get it but it can only do it for so long and, eventually, things go South. Think of a person drinking a bit too much alcohol... For many years, the person will be OK but, eventually, it takes its toll on the liver and one day, the person ends up with cirrhosis of the liver. As to the benefit of ACV with the mother, let me tell you what my experience with it is: I once had an umbrella cockatoo in the rescue that came in with gassy poop (the poop comes out with what looks like holes) all the time. We did fecals and blood work and my vet gave her three different antibiotics (at different times, not together - I kept on bringing her back because the antibiotics were not working) and an antifungal (we also tried that out of desperation) with no success. She was already eating well (gloop, raw produce, etc) so I gave her a low dosage of ACV in her water every day and sprinkled probiotics (this needs to be a real good one - not all are good) on her gloop and, after three weeks, her poop was normal and remained normal after that (I would, periodically, do three days of ACV in a row to keep things 'clean' in there). Try the ACV and the probiotic (acidophilus is actually a bacteria that turns sugars into lactic acid - something that pet birds do not need in great quantities as they are sedentary) but make sure the probiotic has the largest number of strains you can find, a high CFU count, prebiotics and one that has cultures that are live and stay alive for some time.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Loose Poop: Metronizadole Side Effect?

Postby Cockatude » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:00 am

Thanks for writing all that.

His weight is holding steady between 420 and 435, and his poop seems firmer and less watery. I am keeping an eye on him to see if anything changes.
Cockatude
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 32
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Congo grey
Flight: No


Return to Health, Nutrition & Diet

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 27 guests

Parrot ForumArticles IndexTraining Step UpParrot Training BlogPoicephalus Parrot InformationParrot Wizard Store