Urgent - Any help appreciated

[Jennypenny]

Good afternoon All,

I am new to the Parrot Forum. I am writing because my dear little green cheek conure Poppy has been at the vet since last Thursday night (05/27/2021) with an IV for fluids and tube feeding. I came home from work Thursday evening to find Pops severely lethargic on the floor if the room where he lives with my other GCC and my cockatiel. All of the birds are flighted and live cage free (though they put themselves in their cages in the evening when it’s bed time). The birds have lived cage free in this room for about 1year with no issues at all.

Poppy had been fine the day before but uncharacteristically snuggly Thursday morning. He just did not want me to put him down. After I rushed him to the vet Thursday evening, the vet called to say things looked very dire. She put him on oxygen Thursday night through the end of the day Friday. Full bloodwork was done on Friday and the AST was above 2,000 (not a typo), and some test for kidney function was above 20. The first time he passed stool was Monday, 05/31 and the vet said it was only a tiny bit. She is redoing all bloodwork today and will have liver and kidney values later this afternoon. As of today, vet reported that he is still very fluffed on the bottom of his cage but that he is alert and eating a little millet but nothing else. The vet believes Poppy suffered some sort of toxicity. But neither of us know what that could be since I haven’t introduced any new toys or food for over a year.

I have been a wreck all weekend. Besides the huge emotional toll this is, I don’t know what the right thing to do for him. I guess whatever the new values are from today’s blood draw will inform how to move forward. I don’t want him to suffer, but I will do anything - anything - if there is some way to help him pull out of this and be healthy again. Any thoughts, counsel, or guidance would truly be greatly appreciated.

[Pajarita]

Oh, geez, I am soooo sorry your little bird is so sick! I once had a bird (a very old amazon that had been kept in a basement for, at least, 25 years) that had AST values as high as that - he also had super high bile acids levels... Now, I highly recommend you ask the vet to run a bile acids test when she does the blood work today because although AST indicates liver damage, it could also mean deterioration/disease of other organs. Let me explain. AST values show enzymes that appear when liver, heart, pancreas, kidney and/or muscle tissue cells die while bile acids is specific to liver function so, by doing the bile acids, you (and the vet) would know EXACTLY how affected the liver is or whether the problem is, for example, not so much liver but something else -like a terminal pancreatitis- or if it was a heart attack (in which case, the levels would be lower today). AST normal values are around 300 so 2,000 is super duper high. The kidney value that you mention above 20 must be uric acid which is supposed to be 2 to 10 so, again, over 20 is VERY high. Now, the simple explanation for uric acid is that it is the 'leftover' of protein metabolization and, when you find both the AST and the uric acid high is usually because the bird has been fed a diet too high in protein (it usually happens to older birds that have been fed almost nothing but seeds or birds that are not old but have been fed animal protein - like eggs, meat, etc).

It is important to know exactly how much the liver was affected because you can 'work around' a severely malfunctioning liver as it is the ONLY organ that actually regenerates itself but you cannot do anything for advanced pancreatitis, for example. Having said that, super high levels in younger birds that have not had a real bad diet (you did not say how old the bird is or what he has been eating all along so I am kind of shooting in the dark here) are usually caused by some sort of toxin so, please, check and double check and triple check everything in the birdroom to ensure that this is not the case because, if it is, it could affect your other birds in there. Could he have gotten into human medicines like Tylenol or cholesterol meds? How about an alcoholic beverage? Could he have gotten a diet too high in iron (like feeding him Cheerios regularly)? Because hemochromatosis (too much iron) also causes very high AST levels (because the iron is stored as fat nodules in the liver) as does liver cancer, hepatitis, etc.

Personally, I think the vet is doing the right thing but I would insist the vet gave him non-alcoholic, liquid milk thistle and dandelion root extract in his water and, if he eats soft food, sprinkle some crushed SAMe on it because, whatever the problem is, the liver is obviously affected and there is nothing better for it than these supplements.

I am so sorry I cannot be of more help! Please let us know how he does - we all worry about all sick birds even when they are not ours.

[Jennypenny]

Hi Pajarita,

Thank you so much for your response. I really appreciate it. It was so helpful.

After I posted, I heard back from the vet regarding the second set of blood tests... The uric acid test showed his value was back into normal range (5.5) so that was really positive. However, the really negative part was the AST was even higher - it was now 2100+. The vet consulted with a more senior vet at the practice, and they think the issue was the bit of organic peanut butter Poppy ate about 3-4 days before he got sick. It was Whole Foods organic PB, the kind where the oil separates from the peanut butter. I had no idea that peanut butter was bad for birds, and so I am devastated that I let this happen to Pops.

Yesterday the vet started tube feeding him 3x/day and we were going to keep that up for another 48 hours and then make a decision. But I did get to visit him for over an hour yesterday - a vet tech brought him out in a container to my car and I got to hold him for a while. And, the vet called this morning to say he was more active an alert than he had been since last Thursday. She asked me to come back tonight to visit with him again, so I am going. I will be sure to ask the vet whether a bile acid test was done.

Poppy is 6 years old, and his diet is mostly seed (unfortunately) with fresh fruits and vegetables about 3x/week.

Thank you so much again Pajarita for your caring and help. I truly appreciate it.

[Pajarita]

Well, that is good news! I know it doesn't sound too hopeful but the mere fact that he is still alive and more active is very good news! Now, you really, really need to change his diet and, please, no people food - NOTHING - ZILCH - NADA. No matter what you read online about people giving them this or the other, do not ever feed your birds people food and, most especially, anything from animals, no meat, no eggs, no cheese, no yogurt - nothing. Parrots, contrary to what the internet says and with the exception of two, possibly three species which are not even normally kept as pets, are all classified as herbivores and that translates into only plant material.

Now, personally, I do not think peanut butter eaten days ago is the reason for AST over 2,100 - it's actually pretty impossible for that to be the reason because it takes a long time for the liver to start degenerating to the point of those levels. It cannot happen in 3 or 4 days even if you had been feeding him PB every single day of those three or four days. The only thing that can cause super high levels in a very short period of time is a toxin. And the fact that the levels are now higher worries me because that means that whatever caused them to be so high is still happening. Please ask them exactly what they are using to gavage feed him (and this is terribly traumatic for the little thing, -imagine somebody forcing a tube down your throat three times a day!- and completely unnecessary, they could use a syringe, it takes much more time but it is so much better for the poor little thing). Another thing I am concerned about is that they might be using handfeeding formula for baby birds which is VERY high in protein and fat (it's made for fast growth - not for sick birds). If they are, they are feeding the wrong thing to a bird with a bad liver. GCC's are mostly fruit eaters so they require very little protein and fat (this is why a seed diet is so bad for them, especially if it has sunflower seeds) so they need to make a special formula for him (whole grain flours with fruit puree where they can add the liver tonics and cleansers). The biggest problem with avian vets is that they do not study parrots nutrition, specific diets or behaviors (and I know this for a fact because I have the same Avian Medicine textbooks they study to pass the exam). They tend to treat them the same way they treat dogs and cats for which they do have the knowledge and the fact that I am pretty sure they are using a commercial formula to feed him and no liver supplements is proof of this. Don't misunderstand me!, I take my birds to the vet. Not as often as I take my dogs and cats because I firmly believe that it's super stressful for them but they do go for blood work, surgery or whatever they need. BUT I double and triple check everything they do and, if I need to, I argue with them because I never take it for granted that they know everything there is to know. I have had bad experiences with avian vets... I had a bird that was misdiagnosed and, even though I took him back three times in about two months to the vet (who teaches avian medicine in UPenn and has the oldest and biggest avian practice in all Pennsylvania) insisting there was something wrong with him, the vet kept on telling me it was all in my head and that the bird was healthy. The bird died because by the time I went to another vet, it was too late for him.

And this story made me think of another possible cause of his super high AST levels, is it possible that he was fed 'old' seed? Now, please do not think that I am blaming you for anything but the truth of the matter is that people tend to buy in bulk to save money and do not realize that seed or grains should not be used after three months -the packages do not usually have a packing or an expiration date on them and nobody knows how long that package has been on the shelf or in the deposit. Furthermore, freezing (which you should not do because it changes the oils and fats in the seeds) or refrigerating them makes no difference because the aflatoxin levels keep on getting higher (the only way to kill the aspergillus on them is to cook them). I get my seed in small packages directly from a manufacturer (I go in person to pick it up) who puts the packaging date on them (I was the manager of the Administration and Logistics Dept in a grain shipping company and learned that human grade is much more strict on specifications than animal feed grade will ever be).

Please let us know how he continues to do. I am really very worry about your little baby and could not stop thinking about him last night...