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Self mutilation

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Re: Self mutilation

Postby garrett3999 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:25 am

wat is clicker training?????
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Re: Self mutilation

Postby marie83 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:40 am

garrett3999 wrote:wat is clicker training?????


Its just training an animal to do something but with adding a clicker (you can get them from most petshops or order online) you get the bird used to the noise and condition it to associate it with a treat.
Its useful when training to reinforce the behaviour you are trying to train, it lets the bird know that a treat is coming. A clicker is a useful training aid but not essential in my opinion.

If you look at michaels training blog and read through his articles he has tons or training and other advice which I found very useful. Theres a link at the top and bottom of each forum page :)
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Re: Self mutilation

Postby leomacaw » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:19 am

A vet appointment is a must.

If it's all about the emotion and nothing about mice or illness, I'd say let it be. :gray:
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Re: Self mutilation

Postby marie83 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:17 am

leomacaw wrote:A vet appointment is a must.

If it's all about the emotion and nothing about mice or illness, I'd say let it be. :gray:


Let it be? I find that an awful thing to say, besides the risk of infection is fairly high in a mutilating bird- it needs dealing with. On our country law states that animals -
-need a suitable environment and diet
-should be allowed exhibit normal behaviour patterns
-should be protected from pain, injury, suffering and disease

Suffering includes mental distress and there is no excuse for not trying to solve the problem.
pain, injury and disease are self explanitory.
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Re: Self mutilation

Postby Eurycerus » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:53 pm

marie83 wrote:
leomacaw wrote:A vet appointment is a must.

If it's all about the emotion and nothing about mice or illness, I'd say let it be.


Let it be? I find that an awful thing to say, besides the risk of infection is fairly high in a mutilating bird- it needs dealing with.


I concur. They can kill themselves and it definitely hurts them, they just see no other choice. No matter what the law says or doesn't say, it's our responsibility to prevent suffering and bring enjoyment into the lives of the animals we have.

Definitely have your parents read the advice on here with you. I think it's awesome that you've come here to learn, but as you've noticed there's conflicting advice.
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Re: Self mutilation

Postby marie83 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:57 pm

By rights its so sad that we need such laws. Your right it shouldn't matter
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Re: Self mutilation

Postby friend2parrots » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:52 pm

I agree with what Eurycerus and marie83 have pointed out in their last few posts. This is a situation that definitely needs to be addressed, whether its medical or emotional, for the bird's welfare.

garrett3999, good for you, and your bird, that youve taken the initiative to join this forum and ask questions!! :thumbsup:

I'm going to browse around the blog and forum and paste the links to michaels clicker training blog articles that I think you will find helpful to read.

i'll paste the links in my next post below.
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Re: Self mutilation

Postby friend2parrots » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:22 am

I think a great place to begin is this link, Michaels article called "Complete Guide for Beginners." It covers the basics of clicker training and target training:

http://trainedparrot.com/Taming/

There's also a lot of info in this post:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=227

There's also a lot og great information elsewhere on the forum and in the blog articles. If you go to the Sitemap (Index) of the Blog, you will see a list of all the blog articles. All of them will not be relevant to your situation. but the benefit of reading through them is that it will give you a sense of an active parrot lifestyle. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that your birds wing feathers are not permanently damaged. here's the sitemap:

http://trainedparrot.com/sitemap.php

OK..... now youre probably wondering OH MY GOODNESS do I really have to read all this? well... here's the thing. Reading and reading and reading as much as you possible can, to educate yourself about OPTIMUM parrot care, is what will enable you to plan a way forward for your bird.

This situation is not going to improve overnight. You will have to set yourself a long term goal. And not get disappointed if you don't see immediate improvement. sometimes it takes a while.

Youve made a great first step in joining this forum and asking questions. Now its time to get a notebook, and start listing down, in bullet form, EVERY single thing thats been mentioned in this thread that can improve the birds quality of life. I can begin such a list for you here.... but it is up to you to continue to add to this list in your notebook, as you continue to do reading and research.

From this thread, we can start the list as follows:

- avian vet appt, ASAP.

AND ALSO:

- larger cage, as large as possible. (if at all possible, space and finances permitting, I think an aviary style cage will TREMENDOUSLY help your bird.)
- start working toward a better diet. theres FANTASTIC information in this forum on diet, and SO many knowledgable people to help you with it.
- start making a list of the birds favorite foods (this is necessary for the clicker training)
- scrunchies and a cone/jacket/sweater for the bird to wear when its not training, something that can protect the wingfeathers
- a clicker
- a target stick
- reading and research - the more you read, the more likely your chances of success in tackling this situation.

comb through this thread for the all the other things mentioned by the various posters, add them to your list, and please continue to maintain your notebook. Once youve learned what clicker training and target training are, then you would basically do this:

(take bird to avian vet first, before beginning this training)
target the bird toward a toy that's preenable, and fun for it to beak. you would click and treat when its beak makes contact with the toy. You will do this as many times as possible, BEFORE the bird loses interest. then give it a break, distract its attention to something else. and then when the break's over, begin the lesson again. set aside a whole weekend just for your bird, with no other commitments. DONT REACT TO (do not even look at your bird when it selfmutilates or plucks) any self mutilation that takes place. DONT SHOW CONCERN OR WORRY (this is very important) act nonchalant all the time. and during the lessons, make the preening toys VERY EXCITING. get excited each and every time the birds beak touches the toy. eventually, (at least in my experience with my GCC) the toys become satisfying for their own sake, and you can retire the clicker and the treats. but you will have to practice these lessons with your bird, in very short lessons, over a span of time, as long as necessary. and success is not guaranteed. but this is what worked for me to get my birds mind off of attacking its own feathers, and onto other things.

if things are looking real bad and you need immediate improvement, then you can also try this simpler method, without clicker, and without target stick:

Before you begin these steps, avian vet asap.
1. watch what your bird eats. remove your birds top three favorite seeds/food items from your birds diet. set these aside. do not feed them to your bird anymore, but reserve them to be used as treats.
2. dangle an interesting preening type toy in front of the bird
3. when the bird beaks the toy, say "GOOD BIRD!! " in a very excited and high pitched happy voice, and give a treat immediately as a reward.
4. do this for about four or five reps. then take a break, for about 10 minutes.
5. repeat steps 3 and 4.
6. you can do this throughout the day. just make sure that you have your birds interest when youre doing this
7. place this toy in the cage with your bird, where the bird can reach it comfortably while just "hanging out" in his cage. your goal is to make this toy your bird's best friend.
8. if you see him beaking the toy on his own while caged, you should say "GOOD BIRD" act excited and rush over to give him a treat, if you are nearby.
9. through all this, DONT REACT to any self-mutilation/plucking that takes place.

IMPORTANT: even if these preening toy- distraction strategies (with or without clicker ) work to temporarily halt the self mutilation at a behavioral level, you will still need to take the bird to the avian vet, and follow through with the improvement in environment/diet/flight exercise/mental stimulation etc, all the things thatve been mentioned in this thread by all the posters, to sustain the good results and to prevent recurrence of this problem, and the cropping up of other problems. AN AVIAN VET MUST SEE THE BIRD TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR BIRD DOES NOT HAVE AN UNDERLYING ILLNESS THATS CAUSING THIS. a lot of plucking and self-mutilation is caused by internal illness. so if theres illness, it needs to be treated medically by the vet )

also, a bird who is ill, or whose flight needs, mental stimulation needs, or other needs are not met is likely to start plucking and self mutilating again. its really important to see improvement HOLISTICALLY - the birds WHOLE life has to be as good as possible, and it needs to be medically healthy. its not a matter of just correcting away the self mutilation/plucking, and leaving it at that. the problem behaviors will persist/recur if the birds environment, diet, flight exercise, mental stimulation, etc are not ideal or if its sick.

also, please bear in mind that a bird can decide to resist or override the preening-toy training described above and still continue to self-mutilate, despite your best efforts. thats why its good to implement an overall improvement in quality of life, environment, diet, flight, and mental stimulation, combined with sound medical care.

sorry for the long post, but I tend to be longwinded :) I hope this was helpful. Please do check in again to give us updates, and to check to see if others have offered you further advice on this thread!

all the best with your :cockatoo: :)
Last edited by friend2parrots on Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:44 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Self mutilation

Postby marie83 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:44 am

Great post F2P (sorry i'm getting lazy with you name lol hope you dont mind)

Garett F2P is right, take it one step at a time. You don't have to read everything in one sitting lol.
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