Michael wrote:Just remember you can pull the plug on this debate at any point if it's too much for you. Just say so. I'm not trying to make it offensive but just trying to specifically stick to the issues.
I'm not offended, I would opt out if I were, I am basically egging you on a bit. I do think what you think is sticking to the issues is to me redefining the issue in a rather narrow way.
I'm not really trying to tell you to restrict your cats. I'm just trying to point out how it is somewhat unfair that you allow the cats free roam but have a different standard for the bird.
Well, not totally. I certainly will close the door to the office if I want to let Scooter explore the floor. It's a question of degree of restriction. Even if the cats suddenly got beamed up to the Starship Entercat, and we remodeled the house, Scooter would still spend time in his cage.
Perhaps fanatically so. I'm just trying (for a start) to get people to treat their birds on par with their cats/dogs.
I believe in my case that my bird does get as much consideration of his needs as the cats do. I spend about the same amount of time on basic feeding and cleaning chores. Scooter actually gets a LOT more one-on-one attention, and I labor over his fresh foods daily. I am sure I am not the only person in a multipet household that gives fair treatment to all. There are certainly some people who would (and have) argued that keeping the cats restricted to the house is cruel and unusual.
The problem is that people can get a little budgie for $20. It is small and cheap so they don't take is seriously like they do their higher investment pets. They don't care much for the bird cause they don't get much from it. They don't get much out of it because they don't much into it. This makes a cycle.
True. No argument here. They might be fully flighted, in fact, and still moldering in a cage alone.
Bird=food for those carnivorous pets. Chicken is an often used ingredient in cat/dog food (not to mention some other kinds of birds as well).
Yes, and parrots will eat chicken and eggs as well. So do I.
I'm not saying it is impossible for an owner to like both, however, being very bird sided as I am, I don't think it's a safe/fair situation to the bird.
Here I just plain disagree with you. I don't think it is any more unsafe or unfair than the plain fact of keeping a companion animal in a house in the first place. I just don't see it this way. And I think part of the reason you do is because you don't like or really truly understand dogs and cats they way you do your bird.
I think that someone that already has a parrot shouldn't be adding a cat/dog and someone who already has a cat/dog shouldn't be adding a parrot. If you already have both, we can figure out work arounds to try to make it work but I don't think we should be assuring potential owners that it is ok to keep doing this.
Again, I disagree. One should be aware of the potential issues that may come up, and they can cut both ways. Large parrots have killed cats and maimed dogs for that matter. So one should take the whole picture into account. But MY opinion is that it is as OK to make these decisions with open eyes. And I think one difference is that I'm not trying to tell people that there is only one right answer -- I am not in any way telling anyone they should not free-flight their bird. I am merely arguing that that isn't the only right answer and defending my own stance.
I wouldn't have made a parrot forum if I wasn't parrot biased. Please don't be upset by my comments and feel completely free to disagree. I'm not stopping anyone from disagreeing but I will be giving my opinion about it.
That's fine, I'm just likely to argue back unless you as an admin want to request we table it. I'm not upset or emotional about it... if nothing else it is helping me to hone my own opinions. I enjoy argument when it is intellectual and people aren't getting upset and calling each other names. It makes me think and to attempt to be articulate about those thoughts. I do also understand that this is your place and that I am tackling the issue in an area of the forum which is set aside for free flight (but where else would be appropriate), and if this makes you unhappy, I have no problem with taking it offline, agreeing to disagree and not going on about it -- or even looking for another forum to learn from. Not everyone works in every environment. But I have learned some good stuff here.
Edit:
Thanks. FWIW, I also see that you treat Kili with compassion and respect and I appreciate and admire that. I am in no way trying to take anything away from that.