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Male vs Female African Greys

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Male vs Female African Greys

Postby Michael » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:15 pm

Can anyone provide some insight about male vs fembale CAGs and TAGs? What are the behavioral differences and are there any physical ones as well?
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Michael
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 5731
Location: New York
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal Parrot, Cape Parrot, Green-Winged Macaw
Flight: Yes

Re: Male vs Female African Greys

Postby pchela » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:49 pm

There are speculations that the male has a more square head and a dark black ring around the eye and the female is more delicate but these differences are not %100. I've seen females with the dark ring around the eye as well. So, I am going to say that there is really no physical difference worth mentioning.

Male vs female makes absolutely no difference in talking ability. In my experience, it all depends on the individual bird and not the sex of the bird. I've seen super social females and males who won't go to anybody and vice verse. So, I'm going to go ahead and say that in my experience and opinion, there is really no difference in pet quality between a male and female Cag or Tag.
"I bet the sparrow looks at the parrot and thinks, yes, you can talk, but LISTEN TO YOURSELF!" ~ Jack Handy ~ Deep Thoughts
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pchela
African Grey
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 1281
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal -Pippin
Red Belly - Nicholas
Lesser Jardine's - Rupert
Timneh African Grey - Isabeau (Ibby)
Flight: Yes

Re: Male vs Female African Greys

Postby Mona » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:07 pm

Okay...I'll jump in here....

I don't have a male, but from things I have read over the years, I think that the females tend to be a little less bold. As young chicks, a male will often be the first to explore and may be a bit more gregarious. Eb Cravens wrote that when the chicks get to be old enough to explore, that's when he can sex them based on their behaviors. These are tendencies though. Not absolutes.

Hens tend to want you to "join them". I think Jean Pattison once wrote that grey hens tend to be a bit "promiscous". Mine like to forage in boxes of all sorts and when I come by, they look at me with big eyes wanting me to join them in the box. I do know people that have problems with mature male greys and boxes. The males can become territorial, defensive and bite.

As far as pet quality, I doubt that there is much difference. I really wonder though if you choose to fly your grey outside, if the sex makes a difference. Eb Cravens writes quite a bit about different tendencies for parrot species based on sex. I think a lot of people either do not understand them or don't write about this. (because they don't have a lot of experience with both sexes)

Thanks!

Mona
Mona in Seattle
Phinneous Fowl (aka Phinney) TAG
Babylon Sengal
Doug (spousal unit)
Jack and Bailey (Gremlins)
Kiri (CAG)
http://www.flyingparrotsinside.com

youtube: Avian Flyers
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Mona
Poicephalus
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 271
Number of Birds Owned: 5
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal Parrots, Congo African Grey, Timneh African Grey
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Re: Male vs Female African Greys

Postby Michael » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:08 pm

I'm not doubting that both male and female greys make good pets but I really wonder the differences and trying to figure out which is more suitable for me, my household, and my existing parrot?

Are males more assertive/aggressive? Would it be better to get a male to give it a better chance of keeping Kili in line and defending itself? Or would the greater size + maleness make it too much with a Senegal?

Are parrots of alternate species affected if the other parrot is the same or opposite sex? Do they give off any hormones or things that create arousal, courting, aggression, or other problems because of opposite or same genders of unrelated species?
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Michael
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 5731
Location: New York
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal Parrot, Cape Parrot, Green-Winged Macaw
Flight: Yes

Re: Male vs Female African Greys

Postby pchela » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:16 pm

As far as I know, and from all of the research I've done on male vs female greys, there is simply no way to know how one bird will react to another, regardless of sex. It's possible that there are factors that will effect their relationship based on their sexes but I've been unable to find any research supporting this. My female Timneh and male Senegal did not get along but it was the senegals fault and he is aggressive towards every other bird he meets, regardless of sex. Sorry I can't be more help.
"I bet the sparrow looks at the parrot and thinks, yes, you can talk, but LISTEN TO YOURSELF!" ~ Jack Handy ~ Deep Thoughts
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pchela
African Grey
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 1281
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal -Pippin
Red Belly - Nicholas
Lesser Jardine's - Rupert
Timneh African Grey - Isabeau (Ibby)
Flight: Yes

Re: Male vs Female African Greys

Postby Michael » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:36 pm

Perhaps a male timneh would be better at standing up to my female Senegal??
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Michael
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 5731
Location: New York
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal Parrot, Cape Parrot, Green-Winged Macaw
Flight: Yes

Re: Male vs Female African Greys

Postby pchela » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:54 pm

Well, perhaps we can conduct our own research. Male Senegal and female TAG did not get along... now you find out if the Male TAG and female Senegal can give it a go! Has your Sennie ever been around other birds (besides any clutch mates she may have been raised with)?
"I bet the sparrow looks at the parrot and thinks, yes, you can talk, but LISTEN TO YOURSELF!" ~ Jack Handy ~ Deep Thoughts
User avatar
pchela
African Grey
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 1281
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal -Pippin
Red Belly - Nicholas
Lesser Jardine's - Rupert
Timneh African Grey - Isabeau (Ibby)
Flight: Yes

Re: Male vs Female African Greys

Postby Mona » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:59 pm

Hi Michael:

I personally believe that aggression is absolutely something you can modify. We've discussed a lot of the tools to do that in this forum in different places.

I think a male may just be "bolder" than a female...not necessarily aggressive. They are quicker to approach while hens may tend more towards "follow the leader". Of course, I'm just speaking of tendencies, not about individual birds because that will vary greatly.

I don't have serious incompatibility issues with my flock....Hens (TAG, CAG, Senegal) Males (Senegals)....however, this is probably more due to my perceptions and how I husband them. Bailey does get chased by all of the other birds....but since he is flighted it is not a huge, big deal. He has learned where to go (top of the get-a-grip) to stay safe. His biggest problem is that every time he finds an object that he is intensely interested in playing with....somebody else invariably decides THEY want it and they will chase him away from his toys. As far as aggression goes, Babylon WILL go after him if he is in his cage so I don't leave him in his cage when she is out unless I am right there to run interference. She does not chase him all of the time. Mostly, she's doing her thing and every once in a while, she gets a wild hair and decides to fly over and act aggressive with Bailey......but she will also do this to me on occassion if she's in a bad mood....so it's just something I work with and work to modify.

Here is how I do the math: In a flock, if one parrot is most aggressive, I would prefer that is the smallest bird. Bigger birds need to be taught that it is okay to defend themselves but they also need to be highly reinforced for gentle behavior. Beak sparring is okay. You don't want a bird that bites to kill. You need to be working with that bird from day one to constantly be reinforcing gentle behavior....but some of that will be dependent on personality of the bird.

Since you will have two birds, you will find that flock dynamics are also somewhat reinforcing so most parrots will at least show initial interest in each other. Greys have a "monkey see, monkey do" tendency. Your grey will probably copy some of what Kili does. This will be very subtle and you may not notice it, but greys study EVERY THING and one day you will see the evidence of it.

My hens are gentler than my boys. The hens do seem more inclined to nips rather than quick, fast bites; however, I am working with Senegals. Also, and this is a big factor, my boys are all rehomes. They came to me as adults with past histories so I did not have the chance to modify behaviors when they were young. Also, I'm not sure that greys are naturally fast, hard biters. I am absolutely sure that greys are really easy to buy into the culture that you set up for them. Especially if you start with a baby. Baby greys are just little learning "sponges". They are different from Senegals because Senegals think quick, pretty much make up their minds and you work with them from there.

I really think that people who have biting problems with greys created those problems. It is really easy to modify that sort of behavior with a grey. I really doubt that you will have a problem with your baby grey no matter what sex you choose. I think you might have some issues with Kili because she may feel a little jealous. You will have to work carefully with her so that she doesn't feel threatened by the attention that you give to the new bird.

If Kili picks on the new bird, then you might have some retaliation issues. This is going to be a problem no matter what sex you choose....(My Kiri lived with a caique that used to sneak up behind her and pull her tail. It was a problem because Kiri would plot to trap the caique in her cage and was pretty intent on doing damage to the smaller bird....Fortunately, my senegals are not that bold and they have the sense not to push Kiri that far.)

You aren't going to cage your birds together. You will also let them each have their own space. You may not have any issues at all....

Just some thoughts!

Thanks.

Mona
Mona in Seattle
Phinneous Fowl (aka Phinney) TAG
Babylon Sengal
Doug (spousal unit)
Jack and Bailey (Gremlins)
Kiri (CAG)
http://www.flyingparrotsinside.com

youtube: Avian Flyers
User avatar
Mona
Poicephalus
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 271
Number of Birds Owned: 5
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal Parrots, Congo African Grey, Timneh African Grey
Flight: Yes


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