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help me to tame my tiel

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

help me to tame my tiel

Postby tojo » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:25 pm

hi im a new parrot owner and i need your help... recently i bought an 8month old cockatiel that was supposed to be tamed but 4 months have passed and he is stil afraid of me! i try training him almost everyday he steps up sometimes but flies away almost immediately!
Five days ago i bought an 2month old budgie that is tamed (he is not afraid of me at all and spends alot of time on my shoulder) so that hopefully my tiel will learn from him.

Did i make the right choice? will i be able to teach my tiel this way or will my budgie become untamed? should i let both birds out of the cage at the same time or completely bond with my budgie first in order to let that happen? and what should i do with tobi (my tiel)?
tojo
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 3
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: budgie cockatiel
Flight: Yes

Re: help me to tame my tiel

Postby Pajarita » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:00 am

Hi, Tojo, Toby and Budgie, welcome to the forum. My dear, please don't take the wrong way because I am not trying to antagonize you or make you feel bad but, going by your posting, it seems to me that you are confused as to what type of bird you have. Parrots are all parrots but not all species behave or bond with people the same way. Cockatiels and budgies are both aviary species and that means that, once they reach a certain age, they need to be with other birds of their own species to be happy. They are not companion species, they are aviary species and that's why your 'tamed' cockatiel is not interested in being trained and why your budgie will, in another couple of months, behave the same way. Your budgie stays on your shoulder because he is a little baby which should still be handfed - babies are always 'tame' but the only ones that actually imprint to humans are the companion species that are handfed. You can handfeed an aviary species and it will act super tame while still a baby but once it grows up, it will no longer act as a companion species. This does not mean that they will not love you, they will, but they will not ride your shoulder and spend all their time with you like a companion species would AND they will get terribly stressed out with training sessions. People talk about their 'companion' tiels and budgies but, in reality, these are terribly stressed out birds that were trained using flooding techniques (which are something we used to do when we did not know any better but have since realized the damage we were doing and stopped using them). These birds are usually neither happy nor completely healthy (stress and anxiety depress the immune system).

If you really love them. get yourself another cockatiel and another budgie of the opposite gender of the ones you have and allow them to come out of their cage all at the same time to fly around - you can easily train them to go back into their own cage on command if you feed them right and keep the right light schedule (I have a parent-raised GCC and a pair of lovebirds that would go back into their cage when told to: Go home!). And, if you want a companion parrot, do a bit more research, make sure you have the time (because they need hours and hours of one-on-one every single day in the middle of the day), the commitment (they live more than 30 - 40 and 50 years) and get one of the companion species -like any conure, any amazon, senegals, caiques, etc.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: help me to tame my tiel

Postby tojo » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:03 pm

thank you for your responce but i dont have neither the money nor the space and time to house two more birds.Also i dont find a purpose in having pets that ''just fly around the room and go back in their cage''...i want to bond with them and that's why i came here for advice.I may be a new parrot owner but i've done my research and i know alot of people that had cockatiels that were happy without a pair and always just chilling on their owner's shoulder
I agree that a bird could be a little happier with a buddy of the same kind ( not necessarily the opposite gender tho) but i asked for advise as to what i can do now to help my misbehaved bird.
first i want to have a nice relationship with him and then i can think of bying another cockatiel
Also if i were to take another cockatiel right now he/she would propably behave the same way as tobi
Moreover i dont think that jojo is tamed just because he is a baby (and he doent need handfeeding he eats on his own) he has learned this way i think we ve all seen wild babies.
So what should i do to tame my tiel ?
tojo
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 3
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: budgie cockatiel
Flight: Yes

Re: help me to tame my tiel

Postby Pajarita » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:53 am

You are operating under misconceptions that are, unfortunately for the birds, VERY common. One is that your bird is 'misbehaving' because it doesn't want to be trained and the other is that because a bird can eat by itself, it doesn't need any more handfeeding. An aviary bird is not 'misbehaving' because it wants to live a bird's life. It is what the bird evolved to do and these 'misbehaviors' are, in reality, natural behaviors that are encoded into their DNA. Just because we keep them in a human home, it doesn't mean that they are not genetically identical to the wild birds. So, no misbehavior but what nature ordered he did. Now, as to your budgie being weaned... a human baby that is 2 years old can eat by itself but if a mother sits that baby to a table in front of a plate of adult food and leaves it to fend by itself, she will be put in jail for endangering a child. Baby birds are the same, once they reach a certain age, they start eating on their own but the parents still feed them and the larger the bird, the longer it takes for the baby to be completely weaned with macaws feeding their babies up until 9 months of age. Canaries, for example, that are smaller than budgies feed their babies for up to three months and these babies leave the nest at 3 weeks of age. I do not breed parrots (or buy babies) but I had a rescue and had babies of cockatiels, budgies and lovebirds and I can tell you that budgies feed their babies for longer than 3 months so, no, your budgie is not really completely weaned even though it is eating on its own and if you are feeding it seeds, it will end up with nutritional deficiencies (parrots are not natural seed eaters like canaries or finches).

Now, please understand that you and I come from two different places. I am a bird lover and you are not so we are miles apart when it comes to how a bird should be treated. To me, there is nothing that gives me more satisfaction than seeing my birds healthy and happy while you only want to get something out of your birds (" I don't find a purpose in having pets that ''just fly around the room and go back in their cage'') because it cannot be, as you stated, that you don't have the time or room for two more birds. You have two cages so you an easily put two cockatiels in one and two budgies in the other being that both species need flight cages (aviary, remember?) and cleaning a cage with two birds takes exactly the same time it would take if the cage had only one (and I know this for a fact because I keep almost all my birds in pairs). You want to 'bond with them" and there is nothing wrong with that! I also want all my birds to bond with me but my and your expectations are completely different because you expect a companion bond out of an aviary bird while I don't - this aside from the fact that you can't get that no matter what you do or don't do. This is not my personal opinion, it's a fact of life. You can't get pears from an elm tree - it's as simple as that. You mention knowing "a lot of people who had cockatiels that were happy without a pair and always just chilling on their owner's shoulder" but nobody really knows if a bird is happy or not, right? I mean, they can't tell us so how would we know? Me, I make sure that they are happy by giving them what nature ordained they should have so if a species evolved to be highly social, it means that it needs the company of other birds to be happy and, if a species evolved to be territorial (like canaries, for example), it means that not sharing their territory is what makes them happy. But there are lots of people that keep their poor canaries in flight cages with other canaries and that is the reason why most people think that canaries only last 8 to 10 years while, in reality, they can live way into their late teens. Same thing with parrots, people keep them by themselves and feed them seeds so they die way before their time. Mother Nature knows best.

Now, I am sorry that I cannot help you but I do not tame birds and, although this is a site that helps with training, you need to realize that Michael's birds are all companion species that imprinted to humans because they were handfed - completely different from what you have. I have some birds like yours: a pair of lovebirds (aviary species) and three birds that are companion species (one GCC and two quakers) but were not handfed so they never imprinted to humans (if they don't imprint, they don't consider you 'family' and cannot establish a deep bond). I also have a wild-caught amazon that must have been poached when she was already a juvenile (so no bond through handfeeding) and another amazon that was a pet in his first home but was severely abused in his second so the bond 'broke' and he became very aggressive. They are all fine with me, they trust me and I hope they love me, too but I never did anything to tame them or make them bond because I knew it was futile in the long term and that trying will only bring stress to them so, as a bird lover, I am lucky because their 'birdiness' is a source of joy to me :D . I simply treat them well, I feed them the right food, keep them at a strict solar schedule, allow them freedom to fly around and interact with other birds and talk to them. They all know their names and do not attack me (but it took years for the abused zon to stop); the GCC and one of the quakers perch on my shoulder, my head, my arms and even my hands without my asking them (the other quaker steps up for me on command because he can't fly), they also preen my hair, take treats from my hand without a problem and obey me when I ask them to go back into their cages but I never did anything except give them time to trust me, repeat the same command over and over and praise them when they did what I asked. Because that's the wonderful thing about parrots: they are all very loving (highly social structure, remember?) and, if you show them love and give them enough time to realize that all that comes from you are good things, they will love you back even if they don't really bond with you. So, if this is what you want, you don't really need to do anything but have patience and persistence but, if you want more than that and do not want to wait, I suggest you ask all those people you know who have 'tamed' cockatiels and ask them how they did it - and I bet that you will find out that they used flooding techniques or that their birds are not as bonded to them as you or they think they are.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: help me to tame my tiel

Postby tojo » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:59 pm

i think you didnt understand what i asked advice for. I dont want to force anything out of my bird i just want him to trust me and stop hissing at me and i dont think that the only way to achive that is by getting another bird.
also if i were to buy 2 more birds, i need to buy bigger cages (so no money no space) and by time i mean spending double the time to tame them (not to clean their cage) . im 21, a partimer and a student and im already struggling so im assuming you just have alot of spare time.
If you dont know how a bird is feeling then how can you be so sure that it is going to be so depressed with just a budgie and a human? I know about their dna and natural behaviors but i dont believe that there is just that
i got my budgie from a breeder that is doing this job for at least 10 years and she absolutely loves her birds so think that she knows what she is doing
Also if you have this oppinion on aviary birds then why do you keep them if you believe that they are going to be happier on their own?
yes i want to bond with my birds and i dont want them to be afraid of me and just fly around in a small room i dont believe that they will be happy this way it would be better if they were free. im actualy kind of suprised about the fact that you dont care about bonding with them. and by bonding i dont mean like..controling them ( their cage door is always open they come out whenever they want) or having them constantly on my shoulder i want them to trust me and be confortable around me because i love them .it is not a smart move to just assume i dont just because we have different expectations.
Parrots are smarts birds as you know and all the articles i have read say that they need to be entertained or else they will get depressed and bored (aviary spiecies too) and training is aform of entertainment when done right and you are not stressing the bird
i ve seen posts where others advise users on the same topics saddly you didnt answer any of my questions but it's ok have a nice day :thumbsup:
tojo
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 3
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: budgie cockatiel
Flight: Yes

Re: help me to tame my tiel

Postby Pajarita » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:50 am

Well, if you need to buy a bigger cage for two birds, the cage you have for each one is too small because these little birds need lots of room to fly inside the cage (they are flighty which is another characteristic that differentiates aviary and companion species).

I am not explaining myself correctly because it seems to me that you did not understand me so let me try again. Aviary species do not need to be tamed to trust you, they do that all on their own if you give them enough time (like any other animal). I told you I have aviary species as well as companion species that had not imprinted to humans which makes them pretty much like an aviary species because the ONLY difference between the two is the bonding and a companion species that has not imprinted to humans will regards humans the same way that an aviary species would - and these birds are perfectly at ease with me, they do not shy away from me or my hands, they perch on me, they preen me, etc.

As to how do I know that a budgie or a cockatiel will not be happy alone... well, it's actually pretty easy: science tell us! Species are classified into many different groups with one of them being their social structure (which is actually much more complex than just social or territorial -see the links I give you below, there are all kinds of nuances) and we know that science (I am talking about etiologists, field biologists, ornithologists' observations, studies, field reports, etc) classifies parrots as 'highly social' which means that they evolved to live in groups. When an animal lives in groups in the wild, it needs to be kept in groups in captivity for it to be happy. This is not my personal opinion, it's a fact and the reason why you see social animals kept in numbers in the zoos and why it's actually illegal to keep a dolphin or a whale by itself in captivity (which should apply to parrots, too - like in Sweden where it's illegal to keep one single parrot alone). Animals that are deprived of what they evolved to need develop stereotypic (abnormal or aberrant) behaviors (look it up, you'll see - it happens a lot with elephants). Now, even within a highly social structure, we can find differences. Lovebirds are highly social but they are pair-oriented while budgies and tiels, which are also highly social, are flock-oriented so even though it's not ideal for a pair of lovebirds to be by themselves, it's not too-too bad while for tiels and budgies, even when you keep them in pairs, they will feel the lack of the flock more strongly than a pair of lovebirds would. A perfect little flock for captivity is three bonded pairs (I had flocks of over 30 budgies, 30 lovies and 30 tiels in the rescue). I only have a pair of lovebirds now because I got them fairly recently and, in truth, I was not going to take in any more little ones but it was a special situation and I felt bad for the previous owners so I took them along with the two older, larger birds I had originally agreed to take. I switched them to a good diet, got them to trust me and then released them in the birdroom so they can live cage-free (and you should see how happy they are in there!) - and now I will have to look for other lovies that need rehoming so as to 'make' a small flock for them. As to why I keep them? Because captive-bred birds cannot be released to the wild or they die. They cannot survive on their own because they were never taught survival skills by their captive-bred parents (parrots are all highly altricial and need to learn everything from their parents) and this is not their natural habitat. Somebody needs to care for them - and that's what I do to the best of my ability. Would I love for a little budgie, tiel, lovie or whatever to love me and only me and spend all his time with me? Of course I would! But I would not even consider it because I know that while his would make me happy, the bird would not have the best life I can give it. I actually have a little bird like that: Codee, a handicapped GCC that came to me because of aggression but is actually the sweetest - sweetest thing you can possibly imagine - so much so that this is the only bird I allow my grandkids to handle. I had to watch my grandson yesterday and he was supposed to be in my room playing videos when I heard a door closing upstairs and, when I went to see, he was sitting in front of the computer with Codee on his shoulder! He had sneaked her out of her cage during the noon rest :lol:

And, no, of course I do not care about bonding with aviary species! For one thing, it's impossible (the most you can get is trust and friendship) and, for another, no bird lover would because all we care about is the birds wellbeing and bonding with a human is not necessary at all for this. As a matter of fact, it's usually bad for them. They get all stressed out and live super lonely lives because no human can replace a flock or a mate. How would you feel if you had been taken from your parents when you were two years old and forced to live all by yourself with giant predator aliens all your life, never having a friend or a spouse, not even somebody to speak your own language? Not too happy, I bet. But if all you want is a bird that is not afraid of you and will occasionally and on its own initiative perch on your shoulder for a couple of minutes, then you are not looking to bond with them or even tame them, you are looking for a bird that trusts you and I told you how to achieve that: patience and time. Parrots are intelligent but they do not need training to be entertained. They don't get any training in the wild, do they? Nope. They don't even get toys - all they do is eat, drink, fly, bathe and interact with their mates or flock mates. That is the life that makes them happy because that is the life they evolved to have. Not my opinion, a scientific fact.

And let me tell you a secret. All breeders claim to love their birds (if they didn't, nobody would buy from them, right? Their 'love' is just merchandising, same as a car dealer will tell you that the brand they sell is their favorite one) but none of them do because, if they did, they would not breed them for the pet trade but only give the accidental babies away to excellent homes. To a breeder, a baby bird is merchandise that needs to be moved, nothing else. Unless the breeder is somebody who does not know enough about birds to even realize that there are no excellent homes for them - in which case this person has no business breeding them at all! I have taken many deformed babies from budgie breeders when I had the rescue and have found that the greatest majority of them know very little about how to keep them the right way... they free-feed them seeds and little else, keep them at a human light schedule so they breed them all year round (which is terribly unhealthy for them!) and never even keep records or track of which one produces what (something that all good breeders do).

And yes, you will find lots of people that give advice but the trick is knowing which advice is good for the birds and which is not - something that is actually very hard for a beginner to figure out.

https://biologyboom.com/social-behavior/

https://www.britannica.com/topic/animal ... in-animals

https://www.britannica.com/topic/animal ... itoriality

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7217302543

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociality
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: help me to tame my tiel

Postby Himme1998 » Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:59 pm

It's great that you are seeking advice on how to build a bond with your cockatiel and introduce a budgie to your bird family. Building trust and taming a bird takes time. It's not uncommon for a cockatiel to take several months or even longer to fully trust and bond with its owner. Keep up with your training sessions and interactions, using positive reinforcement and rewards.
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Himme1998
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 2
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: Yes


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