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Newton's screaming problems

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby Wolf » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:16 am

Currently, Mimi, would just sit in her cage all day long doing nothing at all if I would allow it, which I don't. I had to allow it for a while as she would not or could not respond to me for a long time and I was spending hours upon hours just outside of her cage talking to her while my other birds got less one on one quality time with me. They climbed on me and I scratched them and talked to them and played with them, but most of my attention was on Mimi. Mimi will now talk to me and even come out of her cage as far as the perch on the outside of her cage to talk to me and she has started to play with some of her toys. But the bird come to life when she hears my Lady's car coming up the road to the house and starts screaming for her. She demands an immediate hello from my Lady and a head scratch as well as to hold her hand in her foot and touch and tickle my Lady's arm. She is just so excited and happy that her best friend ever is home to play with. It is such an amazing thing to watch and it really helps both my Lady to release stress from her job and it is also extremely helpful for Mimi. They talk and play from the time that my Lady comes home until they both go to bed around 8 pm.
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Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby liz » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:44 am

I love it. You have done so much with Mimi.
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Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby Spyke » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:32 am

Thanks for the reply again guys.

What has had me puzzled is what you mentioned Wolf; I don't know -why- he is screaming. Is it a flock call, is it my attention, is he feeling sick? I would say it's definately my attention he is screaming for, but why does he scream when i am right there with him, or playing with? Why does he not scream when i am not there?

Now, i tried something new these last couple of days. I've started training with him.
Just easy things, like letting me rub his beak gently for a treat, or kissing him on his beak for a treat. And it seems to be working great! I feel like just these two little things has made him much more affectionate towards me, and he seems to be screaming less. He also definitely screams more when he is excited.

Yes Pajarita, i understand very well that parrots are not dogs or cats. This thread is not meant as a "I am giving up" thread. I love Newton and his personality a great deal, i just want help to try figuring him out. There's probably a great deal more i can do, like the lighting you suggested, or getting up at 4:30 in the morning to spend time with him before i go to work. But i have a job, and responsibilities in my life besides Newton. I got Newton because i believe i can provide a Parrot a better life than most other "regular" people can. Now, i do spend all the time i can with him, which is 6 hours each weekday and all day Saturday and Sundays.

Like i mentioned early in the thread, the sound of his screaming is not the #1 priority here, it is the fact that he feels the need to do it. And that i live in an apartment with neighbors. What if they decide they get enough? That is my greatest fear.

Yes, i have a bowl with pellets in it for him in his cage for when i am not at home. I also cut up an apple for him to have while i am gone. When i get home, i remove the pellets, and feed him gloop and veggies/fruit until we go to bed.

It's inspiring to read your story about Mimi, Wolf. Abusing pets is horrible, and it is wonderful that Mimi has gotten into such a great home.

Here is a photo album of Newton. It's from the day i first got him, until the last video which is from yesterday when he was trying to feed me when i gave him kisses. Maybe you get a glimpse into his behavior or such? (The first pictures, including the one where he is being held is from the breeder, not me.)

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... M3aFFEVFl3
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Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby Wolf » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:38 am

Actually the stories with my birds are offered in as they relate to the issues that you are having with Newton. I thought that it might be more useful to see the context in which Mimi is screaming, rather than to say that she screams when she gets excited or she wants more attention. Sometimes she screams for several reasons that are closely related and so if I can relate it in such a manner that most of the elements are present, the context, that it might help you to better see and understand why Newton screams as well as why he screams when he does. Which is what you are telling me, you are aware that he is screaming for something, but you want to understand not only the what but the why of it and that is what I am trying to get across with the little stories about Mimi. would love to tell stories about the others but Mimi is really my only screamer. Many of the things she used to scream about have been answered so that she no longer screams about them, but some are on going and some will always be there for her to scream about.
Now I am in agreement that Newton is screaming for attention and more specifically he is screaming for your attention. with this last post we can add that he is screaming for personal hands on the bird type of attention from you. Just hanging out in the room with him and talking to him is not enough he wants the touching and scratching and holding him type of attention. These are all bonding activities in just about as pure of a form as you can get.
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Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby Spyke » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:52 am

Ah, i understand Wolf. Well, you say Mimi was abused in her previous home? I have never abused Newton. I shower him with attention when i am at home. I try to touch him, but he will not allow me. I am sometimes allowed to touch his beak for a second. If i try touching his body, he moves away. He is not afraid of me, at least from what i can see. Nor is he afraid of my hands. I am ready to hold him and give him scratches, but he does not allow it. So what i do is having him as close to me as he will allow. Usually sitting on my hand, or on the coffee table while we play together. I really am giving him as much as he will allow.

He still suddenly will fly back to his cage, sit on the cage door and start screaming. I mean, i am sitting right there, playing with him or doing something else with him. I do not understand the what and why.
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Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby Wolf » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:23 am

Kookooloo loves me dearly, she is my CAG. and she will on occasion decide that it is time to play and so we will wrestle for a while, it is really fun and quite amusing. But the rest of the time she only wants to sit on me quietly looking around or talking to me. Sometime being next to me is all that she wants. She is not a touchy, feely bird and about 90% of the time she does not want me to touch heart all and if I try she will intercept my hand by grabbing my finger and moving it away from her, she will bite if I persist, but not if I listen to her telling me that she doesn't want to be touched.
I saw your bird being held by someone with gloves on when Newton was younger. I believe that you said that this was the breeder doing this. It is unfortunate that this was not a video, but it does not appear to me that Newton liked this at all and that he would have ran and hid if he could have done so. I am sure that this is affecting his level of trust in you negatively. It may be a minor thing to us, but then we have never been held in such a manner and it may be very much more traumatic for him than we realize. After working with my birds for as long as I have, I regard this to be abusive from the birds point of view.
Have you tried following Newton back to his cage when he flies there and screams for you? Personally I think that given his age as well as what you have bee telling me, I think that when he flies back to his cage and screams that he is telling you that he is hungry and I think that I would warm up a little gloop so that it is just warm,a little warmer than room temperature and offering him that when he does this and see if his behavior changes.
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Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby Pajarita » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:57 am

I know that you know he is not a dog but most people who know this on a rational level don't actually realize the ABYSMAL difference there is between dogs and parrots when it comes to their been our pets. A dog might not be 100% happy been left alone all day long but it won't suffer the way a parrot does. A dog that suffers from separation anxiety will stop barking and carrying on as soon as his owner is home but a parrot will not. A dog will always want to please his owner and adjust to almost anything we ask of it but a parrot won't because it can't. You ask why does he scream, well, he screams because he is unhappy. That's the only reason why parrots scream aside from the early morning and late afternoon flock calls which they all do. You can take him to the vet (and, if you haven't, you definitely should) but I've never known a sick parrot to scream, quite the contrary, one of the symptoms to watch for is when the bird stops talking or vocalizing because it's a sure sign that there is something wrong.

Having a single parrot and working full time requires A LOT of lifestyle adjustments on our part but I think it's doable with a bit of ingenuity and lots and lots of commitment IF he is not one of those that will never resign itself to loneliness -which we might very well be as he was obviously not handled correctly by the breeder (infancy trauma causes permanent damage to birds). I also don't think you will need to get up at 4 am, I think that if you set up a system that will allow you to multitask effectively and do what you need to do while you are also interacting with him, this would allow you to get up at, say, 6 am and still squeeze in an hour of interaction with him (because this hour can be your eating breakfast, taking a shower, getting dressed, etc).

The diet is easy to fix, all you have to do is prepare the gloop and produce the night before and leave it in the fridge ready to serve (I used to do this when I worked full time), put the gloop in the microwave for a few seconds to get the cold out of it and serve it - then, at night, you serve the high protein food.

But you also need to establish a closer physical relationship with him so you can touch him because parrots NEED to be touched. It's a hard-wired physiological need for them and the fact that he doesn't allow you to touch him in any way is working against both of you (the breeder's gloves have a lot to do with this problem). So, if I were you, I would start working toward this very gradually and very slowly and only moving forward when he allows it. Start by caressing the sides of his beak (this reminds them of what the parents do to obtain the feeding response when they are babies in the nest). I say "Piquito, piquito, piquito" which means 'little beak' and start by touching the top beak from the nares to the tip very slowly. Once I get them to like this (they get closer and stretch out their neck so I can reach it when I say it), I start caressing the sides by resting my thumb on one side and caressing the opposite one with my index (you hold your fingers as if you were pinching it but you don't really put any pressure). Once they like this, you start moving your index finger a bit higher so you can touch the cheek, then the neck, then the top of the head, then the nape. It takes time and it takes patience but it works.
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Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby Wolf » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:25 pm

With the exception of a solar light schedule, the most difficult part of having a good relationship with your bird is winning its trust. This can never be forced as it has to come from the bird and at its own pace and they do not view time in the same manner as we do. You move towards the bird when the bird moves towards you.
With where you live you are going to have to set up with full spectrum lights, because you will only be able to use the natural solar schedule for a limited time probably twice a year. This is because you live so far north that part of the year there is not enough night and part of the year there is not enough day. One of the benefits of living in Oslo, Norway.
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Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby Pajarita » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:18 am

I've been thinking and thinking about how to manage a fake solar schedule and this is what I would do:

Buy two lamps and put a weak red light in one and weak full spectrum in the other with timers. Place both of them under a table and set the timer for the red light at 5 am and the white light at 5:30 am. Then, when you get up at 6 am, you turn off the red light and move the white light to on top of the table (but don't turn any other light in the room) and open the cage for him to come out (if you don't already have them, you should put perches outsi,de the cage and have a play gym for him nearby). Clean the cage, nuke the gloop, prepare your breakfast and serve him his breakfast while you sit next to him eating your breakfast and some of his (and maybe you can share some of yours if you have something like whole grain toast, fruit or something he can eat). This is an excellent bonding experience and it will help tremendously in expanding the range of food he eats. Bring him to the bathroom with you and, placing him on a towel rod, take your shower, get dressed, put your make-up on, etc while you talk to him, stop to scratch his head, and generally pay attention to him - maybe have a favorite toy in the bathroom which you can give him, etc. Bring him back to his cage and spend a few minutes talking to him, caressing his beak or his feet, playing with a toy, whatever. Then, when it's time for you to leave, turn on a radio on a station that has a lot of talk and soft music, put the two foraging toys with nuts in his cage, put him in it, say bye bye and leave. In the evening and as soon as you walk through the door, open his cage and allow him to come out and carry him (you can use a portable stand or a T stick for this) around the house to wherever you need to be like first to your bedroom so you can change, bathroom if you need to use it, whatever - the only restriction is when you cook something on the stove but if you buy food already made or use the microwave to heat something up, he can come with you there, too. When it's time for him to go to sleep, do the lights backward, turn on the white light on the table/turn off the overhead light, 1/2 hour later, put the white light under the table and turn on the red light also under the table, another half an hour and you can turn off the white and leave the red only for another half an hour before you turn everything off so he can go to sleep (this can be done with timers, too).

Now, a more structured routine like the one I described goes a long way toward making them feel secure and it will help with the screaming but it might take months for it to actually work (took me 10 months to get a screamer cockatoo to stop but he was 21 years old when I got him and yours is young so it should take less) so be patient about it because nothing works from one day to the next with parrots so consistency, perseverance and patience are always needed when one wants to correct an undesired behavior.
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Re: Newton's screaming problems

Postby seagoatdeb » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:51 pm

I carefully read all what was said and it seems you have done good diet chages and good ways of interacting with the bird and there is still screaming. This is a very young bird and screaming is always realated to a lack of something the bird needs. in the wild a bird spends a lot of his time foraging for food. They are busy with hard work taking up a lot of their time. I think increasing the fun toys with interactive and foraging toys and destroyable toys could do wonders with the screaming problem. It gives the parrot lots to do and destroyable toys can help with pent up energy. Challenging toys that gave a nut treat can keep a bird busy for hours. Treats given when the bird complete a challenge you give them is really helpfull to motivate them to seek challenges. I hope I have been able to help in some way.
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