Age to begin potty training?

[Wolf]

I do agree with all of what Pajarita just said, but regardless of whether I think that your idea is workable or practical or not, the only problem that I am concerned with is that the bird will always have a place to poop where it does not feel the need to hold it ever. If that can be addressed to the birds satisfaction then I can live with it. I have never been able to work out any way to insure that they would never have to hold their poop if I potty trained them and for that reason I don't do it.

My bucket is not really a poop bucket as it is primarily in use to catch pieces of wood from wood carving and my birds don't think anything of it when I see that they are about to poop and I move my arm so that they are over it. The rest of the time I have some toilet paper on hand. It only takes a second to clean up and throw away.

[Wolf]

I can't say that I am a big fan of the flight suits, myself, but I am not sure that I have anything against one for that matter either as I do not have any and have not used one either. I do, however, understand that they do have a removable and disposable liner in the poop pouch, and are supposedly made of a breathable material.

[Roonil Wazlib]

Going visiting with the bird? (not really recommended, you know, especially with an amazon)

Can you send me website links or a recommendations to books/resources that has more information on this, as doing my research i haven't yet come across anything saying that the amazon shouldn't leave the home and go have socialization in other places? I've read a lot that they should get lots of socialization, though.

When i asked what type of species was best for me, i said that it was a requirement that the bird be able to come outside with me on a harness and be able to be in situations where he can be sociable. I know that the African Grey is shy and doesn't like new situations or change, which is why i won't be getting an African Grey, even though i wanted to. As far as my research has lead me to believe is that amazons are fine with this and enjoy the socialization.

Not trying to be nasty, Pajarita, and though you have some valid points, the one about the possibility of me being bedridden, and not being able to put the bowls out is ridiculous - I hope you realized that when you wrote it, because, besides the fact that the bowls would be out all the time, if I was bedridden and there was no one else to put the bowls out, then there would also be no one to feed the bird, or let him out of the cage...

I'm not going to discuss any further on the potty training thing, I have all the information i need to make my decision, and though i will look further into the possibility of potty training, you guys have helped me to see that it isn't necessary, I hope to come up with a solution to the issue of letting the bird be able to go potty at all times, but in a way that i am comfortable with. I'll have several more months to think about and research how i will do this - and then, of cause, it depends on the birds personality and so on and so forth.

Thanks

(ha, sorry wolf, i deleted the post i sent before - I can be quite the bitch sometimes and a few things rubbed me the wrong way, so i let of some steam, only to realize that i don't need to be that kind of person, so i deleted it and wrote something (hopefully) a little nicer.)

[Wolf]

None of us want to be that type of person and we all need to let off a little steam now and again. But you know, as long as we are willing to be honest with ourselves and each other there is nothing that we can't work our way through. Sometimes it is part of the whole process of becoming friends as there will always be some misunderstandings in the beginning. It is all ok and the differences in opinion about how we need to approach a thing is a part of the good things about this forum and it keeps me coming back.
I would much rather that we argue passionately about what we believe to be the best approach, than to be subjected to a pat on the back and be told I am doing alright when I am not. And I would rather have to come back and say I am sorry for going overboard and being a butthead then to not stand on what I believe to be true until shown that I am in error. I also like the fact that we tend to go looking for answers from scientific sources when we have any doubts at all. With that being said I personally don't think that you have any need to apologise, at least on my part. Thank you.

[Pajarita]

OK, if you don't agree with the possibility that you could be bed ridden, then think about the VERY HUGE possibility of having to rehome your bird later on. And, no, this is no reflection of my opinion on you or the species or anything more than reality because the GREATEST majority of parrots ends up been rehomed and I doubt that there would be a whole lot of people out there that would consider adopting a parrot that will require poop bowls for the rest of its life. I think I once read that it was calculated that 95% of parrots are rehomed and, if I remember correctly, 50% of them go through an average of 7 homes in their lifetime so, although finding one home willing to do the poop bowl has a very slight possibility of success, I would say that finding two is pretty impossible and forget about seven of them. And, please do not say that this will NOT happen to your bird because none of us can say that. You don't even know if you will work out as a parrot keeper (again, no reflection on you, but nobody knows until they've done it for years and years - it's HARD and you have to fight your entire family for it!). I've been caring for parrots for over 22 years and I would not discount the possibility of my having to rehome some or all of them. Life is too uncertain for anybody nowadays and even more so for young people like you (not my opinion but a fact of life -you ever heard of the expression used with young people in reference to their not having 'settled down yet'?)

As to amazons and why they are not the best species to carry around all the time, it's because they are couch potatoes, they simply do NOT like excitement. They would much rather stay on their perch, in their familiar environment than go on an adventure. They can also be quite possessive of their humans and an amazon attack is nothing to sneer at. These are large, powerful, fearless birds that think nothing of flying at your face to bite it. Hens are sweeter though so you would have to make sure that you get a hen instead of a male but even hens can be holy terrors when hormonal. You would do much better with a cockatoo but they are much needier than amazons and don't do well left alone all day long (amazons usually do better at that -not that it's good for them, either).

As to early socialization and whether is beneficial or not for them, it's a completely unproven theory as none of the people who practice/recommend it have had their birds long enough to see if this causes them undue stress or not (this is a VERY recent fad and I am talking just a few years). Personally, I think it's a practice 'stolen' from dog and cat keeping (as was the now debunked 'height dominance' and 'leader of the flock' ones) where the puppy and kitten need to be socialized between a certain number of weeks after birth for them to 'imprint' on humans and acquire good habits (kittens is 4 to 8 weeks while puppies is 8 to 12 weeks of age) but I don't personally agree with it because I always go to Nature and this is not what happens there. For one thing, the social structure of cats and dogs is completely different from that of a parrot flock so their brain is wired completely different. For another, parrot chicks imprint in the nest. And, last but not least, in the wild, chicks are kept in a cavity and apart from all other members of the flock until they fledge and even after the chicks remain with the parents (grays stay until they are 2 years old and macaw babies stay with their parents for up to 4 years!). Plus, in the wild, there are no 'lone' parrots that could be accepted into a flock (as happens with canines and felines) but, if there were, it would not happen when these lone parrots are juveniles. Furthermore, we have studies that show that birds that are stressed out when young remain high strung and nervous for the rest of their lives.

One needs to be very careful to follow nature's guidelines with undomesticated animals because ANY deviation causes them stress and stress can kill them. Look at Alex, the most famous parrot there is and dead at only 31 years of age from stress even though he got what is, presumably (I don't agree), the best medical care, diet, etc. And, even before he died, he plucked and suffered from chronic aspergillosis, two conditions that are directly related to stress.

[liz]

I am passionate about these babies and blert out before I calm down. I have to say I am sorry a lot.

I have my babies in my will to go to my son who I know can't keep them but will find GOOD homes for them. I am also posting to the thread Rambo & Myrtle just in case the ones who have said they will take them are not able at that time. My hopes are that knowing their personalities there will be someone in the forum at that time willing to care for them.

About flight suits: I wasted money when I bought one for Rambo. It took me 30 minutes to get it on him and less than 30 seconds for him to get it off.

It is a fight and squawk to get them in a carrier so I am going to try harnesses before their next Vet visit.

[Roonil Wazlib]

Pajarita, there was never the thought that i couldn't possibly become bed-ridden - it could happen, i'm not disputing that - regardless of the potty bowls or not, you were saying that if i was bedridden who would put the potty bowls out - in my defense i was saying that if there was no body there to put the bowls out, then there would also be nobody there to feed the bird, look after the bird, play with him or let him out of the cage, etc...which means that he would have to be re-homed anyway, regardless on weather he was potty trained or not.

as far as me being young and not settled down - i hope to generally think of myself as an exception to this rule. I've been in a committed relationship for three years, and i don't go out partying or drinking (I have been known to get happy 'drunk' from drinking two 270m bottles of Cruzers, that's like 4% alcohol in each) or getting drunk or clubbing, etc.. my idea of a good night out, honest - is staying in watching a movie with my boyfriend and pets, or going to a friends to play cards, yes, that's right cards, lol

Thanks wolf and Liz I agree completely

I have to say sorry on forums a lot too. Its that filter between reality and sitting behind a computer screen - in real life id never pluck up the courage to say half the things i have, which is why if i do, i usually take a step back and re-evaluate what i said - and though the post that i wrote before was satisfying to say the least, i deleted it in the end, because its just not me - like writing a nasty letter, but never sending it - only i did send it, but had the common scene to delete the letter before it got too far, haha.

[Wolf]

To tell you the truth I have written a few of those myself, I have also written one or two of them and let them stand on their own merits. Sometimes those letters will reach through when nothing else will so occasionally one of them just might do some good. Mostly, however, I agree that they are much better used for self help and disappear.